Answers to Typical Questions

In a message dated 3/7/02 4:31:51 PM Eastern Standard Time, ricke@netidea.com (Dr. Rick Cohen) writes:

From: BVChiro

To: Dr. Barbara XXXXXX

Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 1:19 PM

Subject: Re: ABC questions

--- "Dr. Barbara XXXXXX" wrote: > Hi Rick, I have lots of questions about ABC:

Rick: I have lots of answers!

 Dr. B:   How long have you been working with it?

Dr. Rick: I have been doing this for close to 3 years now, after having been in practice for 20 years and had done and studied a variety of techniques.

 Dr. B: Was it easy to learn at home?

Dr. Rick:  Yes. I was doing it before I had all of the information, but studying his notes and videos is essential. Having the feedback of a live doctor is helpful also, but not as important. I have never actually met Jesse Jutkowitz. I have conversed on the phone and via cyberspace and once I sent him a video to critique me. He is very interested in having it done right!

 Dr. Jutkowitz:  Note that after the video Rick has done so much better I doubt he needs live coaching. The doc he trades adjustments with has done great after the video.  Anyone who gets the ABC™ At-Home seminar gets unlimited FREE consultation time with me because I am more interested in getting docs to get people well than just making a buck -- I can go back into practice and make plenty if that was my aim.

 My aim is to get every chiropractor able to correct everyone who walks in the door with a structural problem.

Dr. B: Is it practical  (time wise and patient acceptance)?

Dr. Rick: It may take you more time with some patients, especially when they begin... and when you begin. There is some important information to convey and you will want to do an excellent job. A matter which is much easier to accomplish with ABC than with anything else I know of.

 Dr. Jutkowitz:  I do not understand this answer.  Running the protocol takes no more than five minutes if you go slow but just keep going. Many docs stop in the middle or talk a bunch.  When I get to a doc's office and tell them to just do the entire protocol and then talk or do whatever they get done with the protocol in less than five minutes. The rest is not ABC™ but whatever they are willing to talk about and do.

 Dr. B:  What have been your greatest successes with it?

Dr. Rick: Two weeks ago I had a patient come in who has had chronic pain and suffers from a brain injury with resultant loss of depth perception and serious balance problems. This has been going on now for 8 years. She had some temporary relief with massage, but she is now 50% less in pain, her depth perception is markedly improved and her balance is better. She can get around better and can think more clearly. She had immediate results and just gets better.

 Dr. Jutkowitz: Not just tooting the ABC™ horn here but if you do not get results like this on a consistent and predictable basis you need to call for a consultation immediately. There is no excuse for not getting this type of result with every patient.     At a seminar Dr. Larsen brought a patient who had repeated surgeries at the T3-T4 (upper back) level for a spinal cord cyst.   The operations left his right leg spastic (upper motor neuron sign) for years.  I told the patient that would be almost gone that day. He looked at me like I was nuts.  I had him squat: The left leg bent normally but the right only bent 15 degrees (down a few inches).

Going through the protocol once exactly as instructed in the seminar manuals and tapes and he was moving a bit better as was obvious to everyone there -- docs and other patients.  I asked him to squat. He responded that it felt the same and would not be different. I asked him to squat. He did. His face was a look of astonishment as both legs bent until he got about 2/3s 3/4ths the way down (not just a few degrees or inches like before) and then the right stopped bending while the left kept going even farther than it did before.

This is typical even with MS and other upper motor neuron problems -- if not you need to call me.

Dr. Rick's answer continues:  I, myself, am my own poster boy for ABC. Awhile back I started to have odd neurological problems, the worst of which was an uncoordinated gait. I was so lopsided that if I had tried to run, I am sure that I would have fallen on my face. I was told that I had MS. Perhaps I do/did, but I certainly did suffer from upper motor neuron lesions and sensory lesions. Given Jesse's claims about how good this ABC is, I got serious about my own care and started going to Spokane (at least 3 hours from my house) on a regular basis. I work there part time so that I can justify the trip. By the second adjustment, 50% of my limp seemed to be gone. Occasionally I have a slight, almost imperceptible limp. The exhaustion I used to feel is only a rare thing now. I consider that a real success. I thought I was on the fast track to disability.

 Dr. Jutkowitz: Check the two articles, ELIMINATING CONFUSION IN HEALTHCARE and the article on UNWINDING on my web site.

     When the person's body unwinds or untwists in the direction they are having difficulty with they will have some symptoms. When their body is going the other directions they just do not notice their body because it works so well.  If this is not explained and pointed out when it occurs (the not noticing anything because the body is working so well) people will not notice anything until their body come forward and to the side of difficulty. Then they will notice things and they will complain because they did not notice when they were not noticing their body.  It is a communication thing. (This also addresses the question and answer below.)

      Rick himself goes through periods where he notices nothing. Then, when his body comes around, he notices more. This is normal. The funny thing is that docs, no matter how many times they tell patients, think it should be different when they get their own body corrected.  It is not and the treating docs get a bit exasperated when the doc who is a patient complains just like a patient even though they know what should happen is happening.

Dr. B:  What percentage of patients respond to it?

Dr. Rick:  That is a difficult kind of question to give a really honest, non-glib, answer! The more I do this the more I see success. The only failure's that clearly come to mind are those that I erred, those that the patient insisted on not following my advice and a few who had severe complicating problems (like infection or needed something beyond conservative care) or I failed to adequate explain what to expect and quit though they were doing fine. (See Jesse's unwinding information. For some people, that process can be symptomatic at times.)

 Dr. Jutkowitz: If a patient does not respond the doc needs to call me immediately. Quite simply, in ABC™ are the basics of how bodies get funky (pardon the medical term there) and how to fix them.  If you do not get the results promised with someone you need to call so we can isolate what is not being done that should be or what is being done that shouldn't be. This is not an arrogant or egotistical answer. It is experience.

 If you do not fix someone with ABC™ there are only three possibilities:

1      The doc is doing something wrong (missing something that should be done or doing something that should not be done).

 2      The patient is reinjuring themselves between visits (I don't like this one because people use it as an excuse to avoid #1 but you can begin to think about #2 if the patient leaves the office fine and then things develop that are just with that patient. By just with that patient I mean that if two or more patients start telling you they have a headache or something the same, you can bet you are doing something to create it because it is happening in more than one person.)

 3      The 3rd possibility is that I am wrong about what I am teaching. This one is a bit tough at this point because so many docs do get the exact results I promise AND, every time I have gone to a doc's office who was having difficulty with correcting patients I get the doc to EXACTLY follow the directions and they suddenly are correcting all their patients. This is no point of ego, brag or arrogance either, it is a true datum. In the over 300 doctor's offices I have personally been to, not one patient has not been corrected except the three who were send by me for further testing. Two had tumors and one had an aneurysm missed the first time they did the MRI-- it was there but very small so they did not notice. 

 Dr. B:  I have good success with using microchiropractic to improve posture. Some of my adjustments are effective because they address anteriority and I am always looking to improve my results. Is this an impulse-based adjustment, or is it more the analysis that allows you to pinpoint areas of imbalance or correct in a certain sequence? Does the analysis involve leg length or other indirect indicators?

Dr. Rick: There are essentially 2 phases to each visit. The first is to release the meninges. Properly done, this is somewhat forceful. Just about everything else, except the rib maneuver (also described at his site), is fairly non-forceful. The need for care is based upon several observations while the patient is upright. The main testing procedure probably resemble an activator-type analysis, except that it is done at the head and is completely different. You are actually DIRECTLY monitoring their response to your physical challenge at specific body structures. You also have to observe their breathing. Static posture is irrelevant. There is a push test too that is sometimes revealing.... Symptoms also cannot be ignored. If you have done the job, their mechanics should be improved. They should be unable to slump. They should be able to breath deeply. They should NOT have any new or worsened symptoms. If all of these are not accomplished, then you've missed something and you have to go through again. Patients come to expect more from you, in my opinion.

Dr. Jutkowitz: Two points here:  There are not two phases to each visit. There is only one thing, finding the things out of position that the body cannot self-correct and correcting them for the body so it can self-correct the rest.

       This may sound like the same idea as others expound. The difference is that others do not get or give the basic reason the body cannot self-correct -- that there is no muscle available to pull in the direction needed to move the displaced bone back into place.

       This is just bit too simple for most to have as a basic reason so they get complicated in their explanations -- and never do get to the point they can, or will tell you that you can, correct everyone walking in the door with a structural problem unless it is from cancer, infection, fracture or the like.

       Rick may have it divided up into two phases because when you need to release the meninges it take a bunch of force but once that is done fully and correctly for the visit the rest of the corrections go so easily most docs take a bit to realize they have already accomplished the corrections when they do the setups correctly and put just a tiny bit of pressure in.

       Also,  there is no "Activator-type" analysis. Rick says so when he says there is one but that it is "completely different" The activator analysis checks a chain of events and is not specific to a single joint (though they may tell you so) because there are a large chain of things occurring between the check and the legs. 

         The ABC™ testing is just plain pushing on the vertebra in the direction the body cannot self-correct. If the body then stays level or tilts in the direction of compensation you do nothing because it is compensating. If the body remains tilted in the direction you pushed it means the vertebra is displaced in a direction that the body cannot self-correct and the body cannot compensate for the push. This you need to correct so the body can self-correct the rest.

      Again, this may sound like the same idea as others expound. The difference is that others do not get or give the basic reason the body cannot self-correct -- that there is no muscle available to pull in the direction needed to move the displaced bone back into place.

         This is just bit too simple for most to have as a basic reason so they get complicated in their explanations -- and never do get to the point they can, or will tell you that you can, correct everyone walking in the door with a structural problem unless it is from cancer, infection, fracture or the like.

Dr. B:    Since it is based on a different principle, do you choose those patients who would benefit from it based on postural findings?

Dr. Rick:   Absolutely not! A person may LOOK like they have good posture or bad posture, but it is not all that relevant. The Harrison-CBP model is seriously flawed in that respect. Posture may, at times look "worse" as they unwind through some old problems, yet their body is functioning better. Function is the key! Posture will improve, but it can send you off the wrong track, IMO.

 Dr. Jutkowitz:  I don't understand this question. You correct people's mechanics THE WAY THEY NEED THEM CORRECTED (not the way someone's theory says they should be pushed) and they get healthier.

            The only difference in principle is that others in structural healing try to force the body into a position THEY think is best. This approach has failed to correct a large amount of people and really only works well (as those theorists say it should) occasionally. This means that the things their theories say are are the basic principles cannot be the basics -- otherwise they would consistently and predictably fix people.

         In ABC™ you find what is out of place in a direction the body cannot self-correct because there are no muscles that pull in the direction the body needs to move the bone to correct its position -- while leaving everything else alone -- so the body can self-correct the rest, in the sequence it actually needs.  This, as noted above, has worked consistently and predictably when applied exactly according to the directions without adding things or subtracting things.

Dr. B:  Do you mix with your other techniques?

Dr. Rick:  No. But I admit that I did that on some of my patients in the past to a limited degree.

 Dr. Jutkowitz: The point here would be to note that Rick and other docs have tried additions or subtractions to improve things but found they had to drop them because the additions did not do what they though and did not consistently get the results and the things they left out caused difficulties too.

          I just got back from a doc in St. Louis who, doing the legs, would notice that the tibia on a patient was not able to rotate. He adjusted it so it rotated well and then continued the ABC™ protocol. Something did not work out and he had to redo it to get it right.

          I had him do the tibia again and notice that immediately the patient's breathing became more shallow. This means the tibia adjustment reduced the body's ability to function -- though the tibia itself now rotated and moved more freely. The reason is that the tibia was in a position the body needed to compensate for something else not yet corrected as it untwists from its mechanical pathologies.

       There is virtually nothing in ABC™ that is the result of theory or thought. I am not some brilliant guy who thought this up and found it works. I just did full spine standing and sitting films AP and lateral for years, measuring every vertebral angle and twist and then re-x-rayed measuring every little angle and twist. I discovered (not theorized but discovered) what got the body to be more mechanically efficient and what did not.

        If I tell you something will not work, it is because I have tested it thoroughly. If I tell you I do not think it will work, it is because I have found the basic principles of how the body works and what you are saying does not follow the principles.  That does not mean I will not immediately go out and test what you said. On the contrary, as I did with the doc in St. Louis, I immediately do check things brought up, even if they are not new and I have checked them before.

     ABC™ is what works consistently and predictably with no exceptions by actual physical testing. The fact that you cannot test everyone is why I will always check something when a doc brings it up even if it has not worked in the past.

        I will say that every proposed change or "improvement" offered and tried (even a few I thought of) have had to be removed and changed back to what we were doing in 1989 so ABC™ is a very stable and known quantity.

Dr. B:   Does it have applications for spondylolithesis and structural scoliosis? Dr. Rick:   Yes!!, and cervical discs and fibromyalgia, etc. The application is, however, just to improve their structural function as you would with any patient!

 Dr. Jutkowitz: Again, the basic point is that if you fix what the body cannot self-correct the body will self-correct the rest. This is not just some theoretical mantra. The difficulty others have had with this is that they did not correctly identify what the body could not self-correct because they had not correctly identified the one reason the body did not self-correct something.  (No muscles available to pull in the direction needed to reposition the bones out of place.)  If anyone tells you there is more than one reason, trace it down. It always comes down to no muscle that pulls in the direction needed.

Dr. B:  If I don't use X-ray analysis do I need another way to show improvements to patients (I use the Subluxation Station sEMG/thermography).

Dr. Rick:   You can take immediate pre/post photos, as Jesse illustrates on his site. The patients will know though. Personally I think most of the high tech paraphernalia is a waste of money. The patient will learn to know when you have done the job and when you haven't. We use x-ray to a limited extent in Spokane (2 spot views) but I don't use x-ray here and there are plenty of others that do not use it.

Dr. Jutkowitz: The guy demonstrating the Subluxation Station thing told Dr. Pat Kelly that he never saw anyone improve as much as the people they checked in his office after them being adjusted using the ABC™ protocol.  SEMG is usually a good way too. Also, there are several programs based on photography like the Posture Pro that docs use.

 Dr. Rick:  Hope you found this helpful. If you have any more questions, feel free to get back with me.

 Rick